Ep.22 Soo-JIn Kim - Selfless Motivation

[00:00:00] Alright everybody, World Wide, you're now tuned into Danger Vision and I'm your host, Tom Danger. Back this week with a new guest and we have the owner and founder of the high-end catering service platform, Soo-JIn Kim of Include. Welcome. Oh, thank you! You're welcome. Welcome to the show.

[00:00:21] Thank you very much. I'm very, very happy to be here. Okay, so you know I said a whole lot in your name and high-end catering and so forth. So take me back to the beginning.

[00:00:36] Tell me about where you grew up, you know, the origin of your name and your favorite foods. That's a lot to do but go. Oh, great! Okay, well I had a rather unique upbringing. My father was a diplomat for the South Korean government.

[00:00:57] So I lived in five continents throughout my upbringing and throughout my career as well and as a result, funnily enough, as while I was growing up, I didn't really have a favorite food because we lived in these emerging countries. And food was actually pretty scary.

[00:01:24] Flavors were pretty limited so to give you an example, we lived in Nepal which was my favorite country. We tried some Nepalese food but I was eight years old and there's not exactly many Nepalese restaurants. Okay. They were in Kha-Lun-Du and then we lived in Libya. Wow.

[00:01:44] Again, not many restaurants, not where a girl of nine or ten years old can go out and enjoy. And so we lived in some countries where Tang was like our favorite dessert. You know the orange powder? Oh yeah, we still use Tang to this day. Oh really?

[00:02:02] Tang still exists. I didn't know that. Okay, well... Listen, they probably only sell it in the hood but don't tell nobody. Okay, I won't. Go ahead. So growing up I think one of the main common food we had in our pantry was probably peanut butter.

[00:02:25] So peanut butter and toast was actually one of my favorite things to eat while growing up. I was not a picky eater whatsoever but just speaking on that call, the monkeys used to come into our kitchen and steal from our breakfast.

[00:02:41] So it was like for the peanut butter toast sometimes. And we ate at home a lot. We also lived in New Guinea and New Guinea, we lived inside a hotel at that time. And a lot of the food that we consumed were continental American, European style food

[00:03:08] that you would see in hotels even to this day. So having said that, but growing up after I graduated from college I lived in London and Singapore and I gotta say Singapore is probably hands down the best food in the world.

[00:03:27] It's a real melting pot of so many different flavors and cultures and they're so inventive yet so authentic. And then there's Malaysian and Indonesian food. If you're to ask me what is my absolute favorite cuisine it's definitely Malaysian, Indonesian

[00:03:44] food which are a little bit hard to get in New York City but that's definitely my favorite cuisine. Okay, so describe to us when you talk about Malaysian and Indonesian cuisine what would a typical lunch or dinner? What would you have?

[00:04:01] Yeah, it's such a big variety but there is a lot of rice and noodle based dish. So I guess the easiest way to describe it is take a really good Thai restaurant in New York

[00:04:15] because add a lot more spices to it, more seafood and I can't quite put my finger on some of the flavors. There's a dish called Rendang Beef and I think it's Indonesian.

[00:04:28] It looks like curried beef but it's like kind of like pulled pork or pulled beef so it sort of just melts in your tongue and the sauce has a bit of peanut in it as well and I just love that stuff.

[00:04:43] They used to serve Rendang hamburgers at Burger King in Singapore. Really? Yeah, so flavors like that I really miss and there's a thing called Laksa, Laksa noodle and I believe that's Malaysian it's coconut, it's the best way to describe it is coconut curry soup is very spicy.

[00:05:04] And with noodles and seafood in it so that's sort of an example. So what made you pick Columbia as a business school to attend? Well the funny story is I wanted to go to business school while I was still working

[00:05:19] I was working at American Express then and I wanted to go to either NYU or Columbia and my GMAT score had actually technically expired or it was really pushing close to expiration date.

[00:05:33] I called and my GMAT score was decent and I called NYU and NYU said we can't accept that score date. Wow. And then I called Columbia and Columbia was like sure we'll accept that score date.

[00:05:49] So by default yes it was Columbia but I did attend both info sessions and at least where I felt most comfortable and where I walked up saying this is where my future education is going to be it was definitely Columbia.

[00:06:09] So you managed to fulfill your master's degree while working full time? I did I did. I did the every other Friday and Saturday program at Columbia. It's a part-time and executive MBA it's brutal it's from 8.30 in the morning until 6.30 at night. Wow.

[00:06:32] Yeah you really can't fill your butt at the end of the day I can tell you that and I rediscovered my love of Red Bull and then you are working full time and I worked at a credit card company during the credit crisis.

[00:06:48] So with you know the job and studying when do you find time to create this company or what sparked the idea for this company? Most people ask did you get which one came first the idea or the passion to be an entrepreneur. Okay.

[00:07:07] And for me was definitely the passion. Okay. And I went through about six or eight different ideas I mean one of my idea was like this joint fork and spoon holder you know like that's Kong. Okay.

[00:07:22] But one is a fork one left side is a fork the right side is a spoon I don't know or like it was I had a lot of crazy ideas I had a nanny certification school idea

[00:07:32] and a lot of people told me to don't quit my day job because ideas were terrible. So I stumbled upon include the idea for what's included now is when one of my classmates asked for my help to find her a private venue in Midtown East for 100

[00:07:52] or so people and I just happened to live very close to yourself like yeah sure I can find you something and I realized it's really not that easy to find a venue that's of great quality that's in a certain location that fits the capacity

[00:08:10] and the price point because my friend worked at a pharmaceutical company okay and they come with very rigid budget criteria and how much they can spend per person so ensued so many sites visit so many phone calls I mean

[00:08:25] math was confusing so I realized you know this was a no-brainer here's a you know open table for corporate events yes or private venues and you mentioned high and catering in the beginning but that's that came that was part two so

[00:08:39] part one we started off as private rooms he's in New York City and I honestly thought that was it that's all I have to do okay and I industry model on his head by instead of charging the users I either people looking for the

[00:09:05] space I charge the venue okay because private events are extremely lucrative I've learned that it can make up to 30 to 50 percent of a restaurant profit even if it's just you know room in the corner or the back of it um you know

[00:09:24] venues and vendors were ready to give us a cut for bringing the leads okay and so that's how I got the idea but that idea came after many other ideas I explored and thought of and I had a different idea for include when I actually

[00:09:46] first started out and that was a bus and the best of my and was from a professor again in Columbia he told me test every idea without spending a dime and I honest to God think that was the best idea anyone can ever hear because I

[00:10:09] know a lot of people who have spent up to quarter of a million even half a million before they even have their first customers wow just building the infrastructure just worry about we're just talking about a website by the way

[00:10:22] website with them you know and a little full machines or algorithms and I have friends who spent six seven years trying to get various ideas off the ground but you know they take we have to perfect it so they can't just go into

[00:10:38] the market and test it they were so afraid to just go for it and so when your cost constraints year of starting is zero and it's just sweat equity you are more willing to just give it a go so pilot idea very basic very simple and

[00:11:03] that's how we started and you know the way I left American Express was I mean I was dying to start something so that was always there but I loved my job at AmEx towards the last two years I think it was and by this point I

[00:11:18] graduated from Columbia it was I really loved my job I was running a nationwide sales field sales channel love my boss love the people I worked with and I was hard for me to leave but I really really want to start something I piloted

[00:11:36] the idea of include after I had by the way I taught myself web programming five different languages wow front-end and back-end because I was upset I mean I would work until I would work until 8 p.m. at night at work and I'll be home by I'm

[00:11:52] sorry I work on the 7 or 7 30 at night I'll be home by 8 30 or 9 I'll eat dinner and then I'm literally on my computer reading through a 600 page coding book and practicing and that was for about almost a year every night I did that

[00:12:07] I was upset but then I did that for a while and then I piloted the idea that the pilot wasn't was a bit after that so one of my friends gave me another lead so the pharmaceutical friend I mentioned was two years before I launched

[00:12:28] was sorry a year before I launch a year or two years before I launched and then I start taught myself web programming and then one of my other friend was also a classmate from business school and she's actually a doctor at

[00:12:40] Columbia Medical University wow gave me my first lead okay she's just go and find us a venue and that took me two weeks to do and walk us through that walk us through you're going to that venue your what's going through your

[00:12:54] mind what do you say break it down oh yes love it so I walk into the venue I try to look at it is the hospitality industry okay I this is a small directly

[00:13:20] by the owner I speak to the owner I had a business card by the way so definitely walking with a business card anything that makes you look like a legit store front okay that makes sense walk in so I was professionally dressed

[00:13:40] corporate event planning company the customer wants this and my fee is dick that my fee is XYZ if you would like for me to refer your venue to the client luckily because this business model isn't entirely new in the hospitality

[00:14:11] industry like travel agents charge venues right a lead generation fee and it wasn't entirely new for the restaurant either so he looked at me pondered a while looked at me up and down and said okay fine just like that just like that so and

[00:14:28] inside I was jumping up and down the outside acting like that was nothing I was nothing new okay kept you cool and you know I kept my cool I definitely kept my cool and if anything he actually offered me a job as well because he said

[00:14:42] listen if this is what you do can you take over all the private events of my restaurant I'm looking for someone to manage all the private events and you will get I think the amount he offered was five to seven percent of the cut which

[00:14:58] was which isn't a low side so I remember looking at him and thinking wow how do I respond to this I don't know how to respond to that and I said I'll think about it but you know my passion was scale beyond one restaurant and not to

[00:15:16] say I was still working at that point I thought a rigorous day job to tend to so but yeah that was my first meeting and then I went to the client and I said here are three or four options and and they chose one and that was it

[00:15:35] and it was it was a success and but the one thing is I came from a sales channel I came from a B2B sales channel so I had the grit to ask for money which is

[00:15:49] something that's hard to do the hardest thing to do is after money and the reason why I say that is a lot of people offer free stuff as their first sale we say no to that I always say charge something because you the most

[00:16:07] important thing you're gonna learn when you're very small and you're in the pilot stage is price sensitivity okay and I made that rule up in my head and I'm so glad I did because my price went off like let me tell you that and I'm so glad it

[00:16:23] went on because I don't know if I could sustain okay now you didn't tell us about how you came up with the company name oh I'm so sorry okay originally the name of the include was for business that was

[00:16:45] meant for private membership of members only nine ideas that got nixed was introducing special offer from brand new restaurants and members that was too hard to do because I have to create the events and then find members and so

[00:17:07] for so the reason why I mentioned this because it was all about feeling included and feeling clued in walking across Brooklyn Bridge like what's the name it has to be like linked in I'm like okay in length

[00:17:22] clued in I swear to God I remember it would you hit me just as I was walking across Brooklyn Bridge so include was for that initial idea and then what happened was when I actually got the private venue idea I was actually going

[00:17:42] to call it 10 seats or more it's gonna be another business name the new business name 10 seats or more but what happened was one I realized oh my god this takes a great try to type it on a website but I was talking to my friends

[00:18:01] about a lot of my Columbia classmates and no nobody remembered 10 seats or everybody came coming back and asking me how's included doing do you have include start up and running every single person remember the name includes so I

[00:18:15] went back to the name include okay and so yeah so the name is name has stock and and then my cousin who is a professional photographer in the fashion industry very talented I told him I like what can you make this look a bit prettier

[00:18:33] because my initial logo looks very bad right and he said you know what this is like a it's like a new word you got to make it look like this addiction it's a word that you find in a dictionary and he designed it it's like exactly with a

[00:18:46] dot in the middle the color scheme well I forgot I think the color scheme and it comes from a website designer but um yeah so that's even something like a name it has a story okay so you know you tell us about when you got your first

[00:19:03] client and you know how the name came about talk to us about once the business starts to go to scale right and once it starts to go to scale some of the pit balls that you ran into oh where do I start the biggest pitfall with any

[00:19:24] scaling is quality deterioration okay and that is particularly tricky and hospitality because especially in New York City in a competitive market like New York if your quality is a myth your clients will not come back to you right

[00:19:41] even if it's like a little bit but something turns them off they're like not don't know you and they won't come back to you so the only way I could scale without adding heavy investment and expenditure and infrastructure and

[00:20:00] resources was to zero into certain industry verticals industry verticals where events are going to recur they're larger in total size and the needs are much easier to meet so for instance you know a two-hour wine beer reception with

[00:20:28] simple past order and I'm speaking from a catering perspective that's very easy to do that's you know we have a set menu for that we got to get the permit of the insurance and it's in a building that we used to do is that

[00:20:42] takes us no time yeah we execute and and so forth versus a wedding where every new client is you got to start from beginning got you so we looked into there very much zeroing into corporate events we have stopped taking at least in

[00:21:06] the interim request for wedding okay we're pretty much filled up in wedding we're not going to do anymore and we the other way to scale and this comes this is what I tell a lot of entrepreneurs you can either try to find new clients or

[00:21:26] you can cross out something else to your existing client right so meaning we had clients who are already using our venue sourcing service I can go try to find new clients for new venue sourcing or I can go back to the existing client and

[00:21:41] say you know what we do catering to not be one catering and that actually is what allowed us to double in business much quicker and also create a stickiness with our clients because then we begin a one-stop shop so they

[00:21:55] can celebrate in the office or out of the office so so it was focused focusing on the larger event on the corporate event and then also cross selling rather than focusing a new brand new acquisition so so how do you handle

[00:22:12] that client that's extremely difficult you know you found the perfect venue you know you've done a tasting everything is on par and the decor is perfect you have the lighting DJ and they still look it and go this is crap right

[00:22:30] right so luckily we any of those but I'd be lying if I this is not with our venue sourcing our venue sourcing has pretty much been you know fully satisfied by all of our customers it comes with catering yes and event planning and

[00:22:51] weddings especially okay so in those instance you first you have to listen to the client feedback they've there they should feel welcome to provide any feedback that they feel is necessary you have to take it as a learning but you

[00:23:13] also have to be very upfront about why it didn't take place the way they envisioned it so for instance trying to think of one right now well right so there was a client who said not enough food was passed around during the

[00:23:34] cocktail hour and then some of the guests noticed that the food was on that thing passed around I was unfortunately at another part of the room when the cocktail happening setting up for another part of the evening but I missed

[00:23:47] the cocktail hour but I did walk through it and I remember thinking this space is too small for the number of guests and so it was very crowded and I knew that was

[00:23:58] a rip and so to the client the floor plan they proceeded with was not what I advise them on so as a result I do remember seeing a lot of staff and a lot of food coming out of the kitchen but the staff couldn't quite make it

[00:24:12] probably to the far end of the room because there's so many so I take my it's a staff and a group of staff I've worked with in the past then logistically what went wrong about it then you know obviously again in the

[00:24:36] hospitality industry you do have to offer things to make up for your troubles right it's just it's just sort of a given in the hospitality industry but never I try my best never get defensive I made that one mistake I'd be

[00:24:54] very honest one mistake very early on with a very belligerent client outworldly just rude right outworldly rude I can't even explain it I won't go into detail okay and with that client I basically did say we do not we do not

[00:25:15] wish to have been to do business with you in the future wow and yeah I don't I think I would have said that I was this was like one year in and but she was so

[00:25:28] belligerent and so be littling of my staff of me and all my restaurant staff and out all my lies as well so but now I wish what I had done is kept my mouth

[00:25:42] shut okay go back on the first year let her tell me how I could have done it differently or how the restaurant could have done it differently or how the catering could have done differently thank her for the feedback that we could

[00:25:57] rectify and then still stand by the fact that you know that what you are blaming us who actually did not happen and still state the fact that makes any sense absolutely so what do you look for when you're picking venues oh

[00:26:16] God I mean a variety first is well first of location okay location is the number one request from clients then is the ease of access how easy is it gets to get to the private room how easy is it to get inside the restaurant or some

[00:26:37] restaurants are like inside of corporate building right and you can't find it another thing is privacy how private is it restaurants will say it's a private room then you show up and there's no door

[00:26:51] that's not private here the next door the party next door the layout how close they're to other private rooms so how quiet is quiet is actually a big request to the client to and then oh right we've seen enough prices you know what's

[00:27:12] fair and what's not given the restaurant reputation and the location and so forth and then it's a vibe so the science comes before the art if the science works then the art looks beautiful okay then the decor got you so as far as food

[00:27:29] quality that comes after after you look at the space well we wouldn't go to any venue where if we have so we also look at the reviews of the restaurant okay definitely reviews of the venue and reviews the restaurant so when you talk

[00:27:45] about so but when you talk about reviews what type of sites or where you looking at the reviews are you looking at Yelp or you looking at Google reviews like what is your go-to source are you looking at zag it like what are you

[00:27:59] looking at exactly oh so we do look at Yelp and for square and Google okay and but those are very it they don't really speak about the private event experience in the venue right they speak mainly about individual meals and private events

[00:28:17] menus are very different than what the rest of the restaurant kept served okay and that's because certain cuisines just can't be made in batches you know the pasta certain pasta gets up to well after we looked at but the Yelp and for

[00:28:37] square and Google what it does is gives us an idea about the reputation of the plate got you and so if we recommended to a client that has stellar reputation and branding as in it could be hot in you or you could just you

[00:28:52] know have a celebrity name attached to it then half of our spelling is done right there I guess one of the biggest questions that I'd like the listeners to walk away from this interview in which they could learn from you is what drives

[00:29:08] you what motivates right what gives you the confidence to wake up every day and say this is what I want to do I'm gonna go for it even when like you started out by saying this has been one of those days even when you have one of

[00:29:21] those days what puts right I'll tell you why I left corporate and it was because I huge passion to meet a need in the marketplace okay that's me I want to deliver a solution to a true need it's always I always love looking at

[00:29:50] problems like why isn't someone doing about it okay and it's not always philosophical it's not you know socially do good it's for me it's just a need it's like you know when I start the business I knew that I would get so

[00:30:10] ingrained the day-to-day that I might forget what my vision was and so I remember I wrote out this thing called a suspension of disbelief statement and my vision is that the company will be dissed because it would solve this

[00:30:24] need okay and I've never left my eye on that vision statement my mission statement I guess more like that okay but I'm committed to actually solving a need and include actually does meet a need that was in the marketplace so that's

[00:30:41] what I'm most thrilled about but that's what really drives me sounds good you're feeling down you're looking for that one meal that always makes you feel good no matter what mood you're in no matter you know when you just

[00:30:54] feel like crap and you know like I can get this meal at this place where is it and what are you eating you know I love burgers I'm gonna say umami burgers really they are very good especially the the manly I think it has like a

[00:31:12] bacon or pork belly and some crispy onion rings chocro not chocro what are they called there's a tiny onion rings inside the burger okay and we serve them at events nice always gone not a single one month nice I would say that

[00:31:34] right my comfort food yeah so what's next for include what is next for include well as mama included concern she's gonna open up a bottle of wine and have a friend ditto this is the next is for me to further to further refine our focus okay I'm getting

[00:32:00] a refund I'm getting more and more focused into what we do what we say yes in what we say no do we're been saying a lot more no than yeses lately okay and then really scaling up one of our services which is so called telegram

[00:32:13] sourcing oh really yes that is a wise a wise man has once told me if you don't look at restaurants look at conference spaces and look at hotel rooms at wise men was very very wise interesting two years since that feedback I we're

[00:32:30] ready we're very much ready to get that okay up and running and I I think time we go big I think we have I finally feel like I'm standing on a firm foundation okay and fundamentals so and it's we turn five by the way oh my

[00:32:52] the clock has came in perfect time we turn five years old on Monday congratulations thank you thank you very much would you ever go back to corporate oh god you never say I just point I really like being able to have an idea and just do it

[00:33:15] does that make something yeah absolutely yes and I you know it it's very one of the things I learned as an entrepreneur is how empowering it is to know that everything you do is your choice right and it always has been but

[00:33:32] when you're in corporate you feel like you don't have a choice but to do this meeting but to do that project oh we always have choices and so it's not my first preference I would like to continue to scale grow strength and include

[00:33:47] gotcha but never say never yep very cool so Jen I want to thank you so much for coming on the show and taking time to share your story with us and we wish you nothing but more success thank you very much it was such a pleasure

[00:33:59] speaking to you Tommy very cool